Defining Your Customer Experience

#82. Alfred Peet changed the way Americans experienced coffee, paving the way for his first shop in Berkley, California. But he didn't only define the customer experience for his own stores, he also helped 3 co-founders learn how to brew coffee for a shop they will start in Seattle, WA that will end up being a well-known coffee business all over the world.

Today, Sevana and Tiffany take a lesson from the business story of Peet's Coffee and Tea and talk about how you can define your customer experience to up-level your company to new success.

Topics in today's episode includes:

- How Peets and Starbucks crossed paths

- 5 ways to define your customer experience, even on a shoestring budget

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Got questions or have a topic you want Sevana and Tiffany to cover? Email us at thebusinessbehindsmallbusiness@gmail.com and see your question answers or topic of interest discussed on a future episode!

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About BBSB - We are two business owners with two very different perspectives on building business, and the business behind that in order to achieve your goals. One of us built to sell, and will continue on the serial entrepreneur path, which means your focus and drive should include very particular tools and tips in order to achieve your goal. The other, is building a generational business, one that can go on long after she’s let go of the wheel. This type of business also requires very specific tools and platforms to achieve this goal. Both women have been successful in their own right, but in honesty - haven’t scratched the surface! 

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Disclaimer - Details of today’s story was inspired by true events but are not based on proven facts. Also, we are NOT licensed financial experts, nor do we give financial advice. Anything we share with you here on our podcast, whether it be a personal experience or submission, or advice/tips that have worked for us, or that we believe would work for you should not be viewed as either financial, business, or tax advice. We ask for you to do your research, have open and honest conversations with your company’s own support providers and make decisions based upon that. Throughout this broadcast we will share our knowledge and give suggestions and hope you will receive them as part of your overall research to better your own company.

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References / Resources Used For This Episode:

1. Caffeinated | official trailer (2015)
2. BEST PRACTICES for Developing a Customer Experience Strategy | PeopleMetrics LIVE!
   

Alternative Titles:

Mapping your Customer Journey

Branding and Marketing for Your Business

Why Customer Experience Matters

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Every company can be defined by an industry for the most part, but how is it that yours differentiates from the rest? It's not enough anymore to just tell your clientele that you're different. Somehow you have to prove it to them, but how? We're going to dive in today on someone who took something that is a part of everyday life, improved it, and then set off a chain of events that changed our culture, the world, and history as we know it. Welcome to our show, The Business Behind Small Business. And in every episode, we dive into one area of what you need to build a lasting business. We start our show by peeking behind the curtains of someone else's success and then drill down to how you can apply it to your own business. We are your hosts, Savannah Stone and Tiffany Kao. No one gets to a million without getting a little dirty. There's a lot of business behind small business, so let's get to it. The history of coffee goes back centuries. There are places in the world where coffee was not just a way of life, it was the core of their people's identity. There's one such culture that would even allow a divorce based on the grounds of poorly made coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Could you imagine? I never wanted to see his face again. He made me an awful cup. It's a bad cup of espresso, bad cup.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Exactly. Yes, you could actually do this. And I honestly, I can't remember if it was during the Mongolian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, but it was it was one of those. Um that's how ingrained a good cup of coffee was in not just their culture, but in a lot of places all over the world. Our story today isn't about coffee itself, but how it is drunk every morning and sometimes in the afternoon, completely changed, changing our economy, our generational market mindset, I'm sorry, and the way we approach business. So on every corner, for the most part, there's a coffee shop. There's also the big names like Duck and Donuts and Starbucks. Oh yeah. And it feels like over the past 30 years, coffee has become a huge part of uh our way of life in the United States. And saying that, it's also quite curious as to why I have so many different types of coffee, so many different coffee companies, and every coffee shop I've ever been to is always fully packed, regardless of the time of day.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

I mean, coffee is just coffee, right? That's very true. No matter what time of the day, there are people in there at 5 p.m. drinking coffee.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yes. It is they're always packed. You go to the grocery store and there's like five billion um different types of coffees, and you're like, ah, I don't know which one I want. But you know, you still pick one and then you're like, oh, I like that one and keep returning to it. Right. But why? It's a lot of competition. Right. Well, coffee isn't just coffee. Uh, and and I'm gonna explain why, because I couldn't think of a better example of how to differentiate yourself within an industry than to use coffee, just a basic of everyday life. There's a reason you choose the brew that you do. Why do you go to one coffee shop over another? Why do you choose one company's roast over another? Why do you choose Starbucks over Duncan or Duncan over Starbucks? Why, why, why, why, right? Clearly, this has less to do with the coffee and more to do with the experience. What would you what would you say that your experience, or rather your need for an experience, is rooted in, and there's just one person whom whom is the root, who is the root of all of this. And his name was Alfred Pete. Alfred Pete was born on March 10th, 1920, with coffee in his blood. His father owned B Corn and Company, which sold coffee, tea, and spices in Alkmar, Netherlands. As a young boy, his job was to care for the roasting and grinding machinery at his father's coffee company. Caring for this machinery likely gave him self-purpose. Although some people say that he was dyslexic or had some form of a learning disability, I did find that it was noted that he was a very rebellious boy and he did not like school at all. Working side by side with his father grew a passion with him within him for the coffee and tea trade. And the methodology of cleaning the grinding machinery uh also gave him a sense of calm. Anyway, his father had hoped he would go to college and have an illustrious career in anything but coffee. So his father didn't want him to go into coffee, not the family business. No, nope. His father wanted him to. It's not that he was like, oh, this is a terrible business for you to be in. It was more like, why would you do that? Just go to go to college and like, I don't know, be an engineer or something like that. Um he just didn't see his coffee company as being something huge and something to aspire to be a part of. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Of course, this is pre-Starbucks. So there's no stamp. Yeah, yeah. There's no stamp in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

This is like World War One, pre-World War I into World War I. So that and then in the in-between, between one and two. Yeah, totally makes sense. Okay. Yeah. So Alfred decided to forego college and he moved to London to pursue his passion. In the 1930s, he cut his uh teeth apprenticing at twinings. Um tea company? The tea company. Yeah. Love twinings. So I mean, his father was dealing in spice, tea, coffee. So his expertise was in all of those things. Um, you know, and tea comes in tea leaves. So the coffee grinding and the the machinery that he was working on wasn't just for coffee. There was one separate for coffee, there was one separate for Yeah makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah. So Ah, now I know why they call it is it Pete's, coffee, and tea? I think they always put Pete's, coffee, and loose tea or something, right? In the name of the actual store. So okay. I was wondering why they always stuck to like advertising tea.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm also gonna get to that part. So unfortunately soon, thereafter World War II began, a lot of Dutch people were forced into labor, were for forced into forced labor in Germany. Um, Alfred did try to dodge the draft. Uh, so the way that they would do it was that if what wherever you were coming from, so like he came from the Netherlands, he moved to London, he was supposed to register himself uh in the in the city uh office, and he didn't. So they weren't able to quote unquote find him as a as a um citizen of the Netherlands. Um however, he was caught on the street and was sent to work in a German factory. Um it was something that he really um it went completely against who he was to be working in this German factory, this Nazi factory. Um Pete was a hard worker and it was something completely a part of his fabric. And while there, he would hyperfocus on making things and putting things together. So this kind of goes back to the whole um learning disability. It's quite possible he had ADHD of some form or was neurodivergent in some way because you know, some people knew that there was something, but they obviously didn't have the testing mechanisms that they have now. Okay. Um, but in any case, um, he really excelled. And it wasn't that he was excelling because he wanted to be an excellent worker, it was that he would get hyper-focused and work really well. Um, it was funny that I found this quote, um, but he worked so well, so much so that uh other workers would say to him, and I quote, please slow down. You are working for the enemy. There was a time in which the laborers were allowed a few weeks of leave. And so he went home to Alkmar, and while he was there, he hid in the attic of his family shed. And, you know, when they came back to get him, the family was like, I don't know where he is, and uh he remained there until the war was over. Wow. Yeah. So um, like I said, it went completely against all of his core to be working for the Nazis, and he was not gonna have any part of it anymore. So after the war, Alfred went on to work for a few more companies, and uh before heading to the States, he worked in New Zealand. So the last place he went to before the US was New Zealand. And although it was satisfying work, he did find the place to be a little bit boring. And so he decided that he was gonna come to America. Now, if he had come to the US after the war after the World War, um, like most people did from Europe, he would have ended up in New York. You know, Ellis Island was where everybody was just kind of funneling through. Um, but he l but because he was coming from New Zealand, he landed in San Francisco. Alfred's time in the U.S. seemed to be a form of a case study for him. Having worked since he was a kid as a connoisseur and crafter of single-origin coffee, he was shocked, completely gaffawed at the grade of coffee that Americans were drinking. It was like, it was total trash. So he came to the richest country in the world drinking the lousiest coffee, which is almost a quote of his, a direct quote of his. Um, for him, coffee should be roasted just until it's dark and not a second more, which I think is funny. Side note, that craft coffee today also holds that belief. But like we're talking almost a hundred years ago is when he came up with this, not came up with it, but introduced it. Like this was something that he had been doing for years. It should be one form of roast, whereas unnamed, very inexpensive coffee companies, I don't want to throw anyone out there and get people mad at me, but I think you know who I'm talking about, um, those that come in tin cans, they're usually bits and bobs of of roast. And honestly, it was probably around the 40s, 50s when uh coffee companies were like, well, if we burn them into a dark roast, and because there's no such thing as a dark roast, if you didn't know that. Um if we burn it to a dark roast, all of it will taste burnt, and everyone's coffee will be the same. Way to normalize like burnt coffee. Right. Well, you know, if you if you get um, because I mean I happen to know this about coffee because I love coffee, but also all coffee comes in the same, it comes in different um ways in which you have to roast them. So, you know, there are some that you have to roast a long period of time and some that you roast for a short period of time, and that's why Americans are like, we can't we can't um generalize that and put it in a factory and make it all the same. So why don't we just burn them all and we'll start selling it as bold roast or dark roast or espresso roast. So there you go.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

And now we know how we're here today, okay?

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Right, right. So so for him, the beans from Indonesia were where he thought that the best beans came from. And um, this coffee was bitter, well over roasted, and tasted like ash, just like I said. So he decided if he was going to get a good cup of coffee, he was gonna have to make it himself. So from 1955 to 1966, he worked various jobs and was able to save up enough money to open up his own place. In 1966, on the corner of Vine Street and Walnut Street in Berkeley, California, Alfred opened up his first shop: Pete's coffee, tea, and spices.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Wow. So this so it's California. I think a lot of people are, I think the myth is that it was Seattle, right? Because I think they get him confused with Starbucks. I'm gonna get to that.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

So in the San Francisco Bay area, there was a large Italian-American community of which had a great appreciation for dark roast, which of course they do. I mean, this is something that they brought over from Italy. And remember when I said about some beans you roast a lot and some you don't? And in Italy, in the area in which they were getting their or in the way in which they were getting their beans, yeah, you did have to roast them a little bit longer. And it was bold and it was really good. So you only drank it in the morning and at night, not in between. Something I've heard, never been to Italy, but I've heard that if you ask for a cappuccino in the afternoon, people are like, what is wrong with you? You must be American. You must be an American. You only drink that in the morning. Yeah. So to them, their focus was on where Italians drink their espresso and everyone and everyone else was a commodity. So these coffee roasters were really only focused on the Italian American community. They didn't really care about anybody else. Um he was not just a coffee man, but as a businessman, he knew he was going to have to bring something else to the table for these people to buy his coffee. He not only wanted people to taste the coffee, he wanted them to be fascinated by the coffee and experience the coffee, much like people do with wine. Because that was that was the foundation in which he understood coffee. And he was like, why is it only saved for us in the wholesale market? Why can't people in the retail market experience it in the same way we do? Right. So he he said, and this is something we know now, but a hundred years ago people didn't know that, that there's a bottom note, that there's a uh medium note, and that there's a bouquet. You know, when you when you buy a bag of coffee, it says um hints of caramel and almonds and blueberry or citrus or whatever it is. Um, so anyway, he he knew he couldn't control how people drank the coffee, but in how he presented it, that would be the control of their experience. That was how he could control it. So Alfred had a keen eye for detail and his stat his it didn't take long for Pete's to become a hippie hangout. Youcelia in Berkeley was just down the road. I mean, think about it, this is in the 60s. So um, you know, like for hippies, coffee was like the thing, the beat necks, right? I'm sure it was. Yeah, so people from the old world and here, he was in this modern location with knowledge and facilities that made people say, Oh wow, this is so much more than just coffee. His shop became such an iconic place that his fans would lovingly call themselves Peatniks. Yeah. So in 1970, three men, Zeb Siegel, Gordon Belcher, and Jerry Baldwin, who had heard about this infamous Pete's, um, decided that they wanted to meet Pete because they themselves were Pete Nicks, and they were huge fans of his.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

So I can't believe they kind of considered uh this guy Albert Pete, right, Albert? Like to be some kind of rebel that he would be infamous for his coffee.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

I'm this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

This is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Wow, okay. But like if you think about it, this was revolutionary because prior to that, all of our coffees since the colonial days had like bits of bark, chicory, that's why you buy that the chicory coffee, had bits and bobs of this and that and the other, and it was all burnt. And so people only knew one kind of coffee. And it really was it was an afterthought for most people in the US prior to that. We were still tea drinkers, really, which is shocking, I know. But we were really more tea drinkers or just nothing at all because we had to hurry up and get to work and then hurry up and get home, and you know, we were we were drinking lots of stuff, but it wasn't really coffee that we were like, I'm going to savor this. So, what Alfred Pete had done was created a culture around I'm going to savor this, and that was revolutionary. Slow down. So these three gentlemen had an idea to start a quality coffee shop in Seattle, and they had hoped that Pete would mentor them in the art of roasting and serving coffee. Now, Pete had been approached that way before and saw this as an opportunity to share his vast knowledge and then put a bit of himself out there into the world. These four men grew very close, and Alfred saw them over time, not so much as pupils, but as the sons he never had, because he never might he never married, he didn't have any children, and these men were very young. Um, they had recently graduated from college, so for him, you know, big age difference. Anyway, after the three uh men learned the art of coffee, they returned it to Seattle and began their business. They bought their beans exclusively from Alfred, and later Alfred went to Seattle to continue consulting and advising them. Uh these four men respected each other immensely and appreciated each other's criticisms. By 1984, Siegel had dropped out and Baldwin and Bauker had continued on. By now, they had named their coffee shop in honor of a character in Moby Dick, Starbucks. And the two men offered to buy Alfred's beloved original Pete's location along with three other stores. So it would be four Pete's stores in total. Pete was honored to sell and yet a bit wistful at the same time. Baldwin's connection with the Pete's brand was had really deepened. Like Baldwin was completely absorbed into Pete's, more so than into Starbucks. And so um Baldwin, or rather, I'm sorry, Baldwin's connection was so deep that he eventually left Starbucks in 1987 to continue focusing on these four Pete stores. Uh Baldwin and the Starbucks' new owner, Howard Schultz, agreed to a non-compete agreement in the Bay Area. Uh, I don't know if it's still, I I don't think that it still stands. Maybe it does, but essentially what it meant is that Starbucks can grow wherever it wants to grow, but just not in the Bay Area. You can't be here. And in 2012, Pete's Coffee and Tea was sold for almost $1 billion, but not to Starbucks. Some say that Starbucks might not have been interested in acquiring Pete's because it would have added 200 stores that Starbucks did not want. They didn't want, probably. Yeah, they were like, that's just way too much too quickly. And that Pete's was a lesser well-known brand than Starbucks at this point. Um, but others say that Starbucks and Pete's have just different company cultures. Starbucks uses marketing to make their customers feel elite, while Pete's is seen as more authentic. Yeah. Either way, Alfred took something as simple as coffee and interwove it into a fabric of our culture. He made people feel things about coffee they'd likely never had or never thought they would feel. By doing this, he differentiated his product and built a brand that went on to build become bigger and better. And he branded himself as the godfather of the modern coffee roaster and the modern coffee shop.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

Well, he did predate Starbucks here in America, and he did have a whole helping hand in that creation. So it's kind of nice to know that these two, I guess you can call them rival stores, kind of had an intertwining like origin story where everybody was friends and it was a friendly competition.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Always had been, always has been. Yeah. Uh and also it's probably also important to know that the gentlemen that started Starbucks, although they loved the coffee and they loved the idea of coffee, they did not come from the same place that Alfred did. Alfred only wanted people to experience and find joy in coffee, whereas Starbucks wanted to become a billion-dollar brand. Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And different different motivations. Right. And to this day you can still feel it, right? And also, I do find it funny that again, this had none of the original owners involved in this decision of Starbucks. It was the newer newest owner that made this decision to talk about full circle. Go back to, hey, if we roast everything at the same level, if you burn it, no one will know the difference. Which is why Starbucks coffee tastes burnt. Now we know. Sorry, Alfred. All of all of what you did. The Americans were like, this has been a great experience over the past hundred years. Now we're going to burn our bur burn everything and make it taste like crap again. Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Coming full circle, right? But I mean, that was the one complaint you hear about all the time over these years. So it's kind of cool to know where it came from because people always complain. Well, it tastes like burnt coffee. I feel like it even tastes like burnt coffee. I'm not a huge coffee kind of sore by any means. But even I'm kind of like, it just tastes burnt all the time. Like, why do people like this? And I guess that's also why people like the coffee spin-offs, like the lattes and everything that has lots of sugar and cream and stuff in it to kind of you know cover that burnt taste. But some people, you know, I think it's a acquired taste because some people really do enjoy that coffee taste, right? So to each their own.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Well, it was also a marketing strategy. Um, there's so much more that could that you can go into with this. And I will say that I was inspired with this story by watching The Food That Made America. It was an episode between um uh Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks. And um, unfortunately, it's a bit of a marketing strategy as well that if you burn it enough, people are gonna want to put milk and sugar and flavor and all this other stuff, which costs a whole lot less than the coffee. So you use less coffee and now. You're if you if a person had a really good cup of coffee and they had eight ounces of it, maybe that would cost the the person, the retailer, um, wholesale maybe two dollars. But if it's crappy and now they can only handle like two ounces, now it's only 50 cents.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

I didn't do the math, but let's all intentional, that's what you're saying. All intentional. All intentional part of trying to differentiate themselves in the market, which is an odd way to go about it, but you know, the proof isn't a pudding because clearly Starbucks has expanded. Although this is a timely discussion, being the fact the latest, you know, big breaking news is Starbucks owner has now, or CEO of Starbucks has just undergone a very dramatic change. Right. So, yes. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

But you know, this I'm really excited to hear what you have to say because I think it's very interesting how Starbucks was like, we are going to pull back the cost of the customer experience and make the customer think they're getting an even more exclusive, better, expensive, richer experience, but it's gonna cost us even less. That's genius.

SPEAKER_03 23:10

So it is, but it all goes back to look how much of an impact your customer experience has, right? You're actually talking about there's a return on investment here. Like you're actually decreasing costs, but you're doing that because you're able to increase the experience in a certain direction, which is right genius. And it's great for us in small business because most of us have a shoestring budget that we're working on, or certainly not the budget the size of Starbucks. Um, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

I mean they have to start smart people, right? Yeah, figuring this out somewhere. It was when they made that decision that things started to rocket for them. Because it wasn't it wasn't before that, and that's when like I I know we're not talking about Dunkin' Donuts, and this isn't really supposed to be about coffee, but that was where Dunkin' Don Donuts was like, holy crap, what are we gonna do? Because here's Starbucks, you know, the return on investment is insane, and we're over here making cups of coffee, like you know what I mean? Like it was he the guy the guy at Dunkin' Donuts was like, How can I capitalize the way they have, which I think is a question all business owners can ask. Yes, how can I capitalize on the customer experience without going broke?

SPEAKER_03 24:20

And that's true, and that's what we're gonna talk about. Uh quick side note though, I most people don't know that Dunkin' is actually a coffee company, they all think it's a donut company. And they actually invest a lot of time and effort in their coffee, which I actually prefer. Okay. Don't cancel me for this for saying that. I prefer Pete's and Dunk Duncan's, or probably more Dunkins than anything else. But anyways, I agree. Getting back to our topic for today, which is about how do you actually create the customer experience um if you're on a shoestring budget, or if let's say you have a moderate budget, you've been in business for a few years and you're trying to figure out how to grow to the next level, at some point you will take a real hard look at your customer experience. And if you're just starting out, you know, being able to tailor your customer experience in a way that costs you very little gets you a lot of return, which is why this is such a fun topic to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

My gosh. And you know, I think this is very timely as well, because it could be that you've been in business for a long time, and this is something that I've thought about. But um, in if you've been in the business for over 10 years, 10 years or over, you've already seen um generational changes and cultural changes, and and maybe you're not as um engaged with your customer as you used to be. And all these other people have entered into your um into your industry that are doing it better than you. So now you're like, oh crap, what do I have to do to get back my edge?

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Well, yes, people are always gonna find the same waiting pool you're in, um, no matter how long you've been in there. And if anything, you almost want to keep on your toes because the longer you've been in the industry, it's a little bit easier for you to feel a little bit more softer and laid back because you feel safe. But in business, there's always gonna be competitors coming into your space. So customer experience is one way to really stand out as we see with today's story. So, you know, being the fact that how they experience your brand can really make a break your success, I think it's good that today we'll probably talk about. I just kind of narrowed it down to five practical ways, not that there is a more, but you know, giving this some thought, feeling like five ways where you can do this even on a shoestring budget. And it could be kind of surprising what the return will be without you having to spend a you know, a bunch load of money.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

So first up, let's talk about what we can call the invisible touch points. So these are really what is seemingly minor interactions with customers that may have a huge effect, positive effect on your brand. That even though sometimes it feels like it goes unnoticed, but there's a perception that you're kind of building there. And it doesn't take a whole lot of money to do this, it just takes a little thoughtfulness to be able to kind of create those little touch points, like the way uh, for example, Zappos did. So we all know about Zappos and how they have this amazing customer service. I mean, books have been written on it. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

So we're all very I mean, we've also talked about, we've also talked about it in the past.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Right, exactly. But they've been just kind of the epitome of what great customer service is. And something small and minute, minute, like you would consider pretty minute, that they did was, you know, they once upgraded a customer's late night order to overnight shipping for free. And this created such a delightful surprise for the customer that, you know, this is what I mean by invisible touch points that can have such a lasting impression. It probably didn't cost them very much to do that, being the fact that I would assume they probably, you know, paid in bulk for all overnight shipping, anyways, right? But just think about the delight in those customers. And then these days, I doubt back then there was reviews, but these days, you know, those little delights would equate to basically five-star reviews, which again has a huge reward as we know now, especially with your digital presence in the uh market. Now, other things you can do is also little simple things like personalize some kind of follow-up email, handwrite a thank you note, handwrite a little note in your packaging, right? Like those tiny little touches that takes you no no more than like two seconds to do is again one of those invisible touch points that can go a long, long way. One thing that I've always appreciated, I've seen other people do this, I do it myself, is especially if I'm networking or I'm talking to somebody, I want to make sure that I always pick up a couple of nuggets in my mind of specific things we talked about in the conversation so that when I do a follow-up email or do a check-in email later on, it doesn't seem like it's just kind of bland and templated. You know, there's something in there that's very specific to what we said. Um, and same thing with customers. If you know you have maybe the customer interacting with your customer service agent, if that customer service agent can reply with something kind of personalized to the conversation, it just makes it feel that much closer and better and adds value to the entire customer experience.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Now, if you're somebody who's been in business for a while, I mean, one really easy way to kind of keep these kind of follow-ups personalized is really investing in a CRM software. So whether it's a HubSpot, active campaign, any of those to really help kind of automate this and so that you can one remember when to send out communication. But oftentimes these kind of uh platforms also have built-in ways we personalize every communication so that you know whether or not you send them something special. I mean, we've all gotten before, right? Emails where it's like, happy birthday. You're like, Oh, how do you know it's my birthday? Yeah, thanks so much for the dis I I yeah, I use all my discounts on my birthday.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah, me too. That's basically what I do the entire day. I start at Duncan and I work my way around.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

I think Starbucks does it too. So I just a lot of places do it. Yeah. And you you feel nice, right? And you remember the stores that give you those birthday discounts because you kind of look forward to it. Even though like it's not earth-shattering money by any means, right? But it's just a nice gesture that they don't have to do. Or they can do something special these days where I mean it's a little stockerish, but of course, you know, you go on any website, they're already kind of logging in, what's your preferences, and then you get a special offer based on your past purchase or something you clicked on. Those little things are kind of the nice touch points we're talking about here. It makes you keep coming back. Yeah, so if you have a little money to put in a CRM and kind of automate that, then that also just makes it that much easier for you to have a bigger reach. But otherwise, shoestring budget, you're just starting out, maybe you don't have that many customers. You can always kind of try to spend that two seconds doing something a little bit special, like a note or something printed that you can slip into your package or something in your follow-up email. Okay. So then let's rethink of when the customer experience really begins. Because a lot of people assume that it begins when the customer actually walks through your door, right? Or clicks on your website. But the thing is their customer experience has already begun before they even knew that you existed. So, for example, let's talk about Tesla. Now, we've all heard of Tesla, and the thing is their customer experience starts way before anyone even buys a car, right? So they're already thinking, and I'm sure I mean Tesla's not the only one to do this, like Apple does the same thing, right? They're already carefully curating what the brand image is online and media, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Even how where their product placement is, what they're creating ads for. We've all seen product placements, especially in you know, shows and movies and things like that. These are all companies who are thinking about okay, what is the impression, what is the experience we want our potential customers to have, even before they even were thinking of us? Because there's a lot of people who don't think they'll ever buy a Tesla or even care to buy a Tesla. But if you ask them, you know, what is your customer experience with Tesla? They probably already have one. Right. Annoying to them, but they already do have one. So a lot of these kind of pre-engagement experiences really help help shape how customers see you as a business. So think about kind of like ways to be able to kind of reach your customer and start shaping that brand even before they even feel like they need you or are even looking for you. LinkedIn's a great way to do this too, by the way. LinkedIn social media posts, right? You don't even have to talk about exactly what your services are or what you're doing, but what you put out there and what you're saying is already shaping that brand for them and that idea of what your what your brand is. Now, the other thing you can do is that you know you can also put some effort into encouraging your customers, especially the happy ones, to leave you reviews online, right? And for maybe you or your team to engage in any kind of groups or communities online to kind of share your experience. Like I said, you don't have to talk about what you're good at, but you can also do it in a form of being able to share what you know and help somebody solve a problem online. Now, if you have some money to spend, of course, you know, content marketing is the way to go, right? You can do blogs, videos, podcasts, not that yeah, exactly. I can't say anything bad about podcasts, right? But the idea is you're positioning yourself as an expert in the field. And so in your particular field or in a field where, again, people may not be specifically looking for you, but you're already shaping their experience for them. And so this is great in ways of being able to influence how they perceive you before they even know they need to buy from you.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

And also, like if you have a kind of brick and mortar that where you're pretty you're selling any kind of product, let's say you're a clothing store, um, I'm more than positive there's a local podcast uh podcaster that you can go on their show, yeah, or um you could do videos. There's this great um clothing store that I follow that is in Dallas, Texas. Don't ask me why. I follow her and I buy from her. She's just a she has like two stores, I think.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

But she does these awesome videos where she says, and it's like almost every day, where she's like, There's a new drop, and here's these new. She'll usually only have like up to five new items in the store, but she'll be like, This is a really great new item. This is a really good, we just got this one in, or whatever. And it makes me excited. And like I said, random. I I'm nowhere near Dallas, Texas. I can't even tell you how I found her. I'm sure she was one of those um, you know, how you get to the end of all of your paper that you follow, and it says here, these are some people who that's how I found her. But I love the content because it's something she's already made. I already know what kind of clothing to expect from her. I already know what kind of experience I'm going to have. And I knew that before I was a client of hers.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Exactly, right? And that just again encourages you closer to hitting that buy button. Right. And I think, like, okay, so we can speak to podcasts specifically, because obviously we're on one. So we know a couple things about this, even though when we first started, we had no clue. But, you know, now how many episodes in? And we we know a few things. But I will say that I think the misconception is one, it is very low cost today due to all the software that's out there. Now, what you're not paying in costs, you're also paying in effort. So, you know, we're not discounting that there's gonna be time equals effort. But if you're talking about hard budget money and you don't have enough, it's pretty low cost for you to start something like a video, a blog, or a podcast. But the thing I will say is what people put into those are very intentional. It is not, I'm picking up a mic and randomly speak into it. I have a camera, I'm just talking into the camera, or I'm just typing whatever thoughts that come to my mind on paper. There is design and intention behind all of this. And I mean, not to get down a rabbit hole of how much like effort Savannah I have to put in, like to plan and figure out well, what is the feel of the podcast? What do we want to talk about? What kind of listeners do we want to attract? What would be important today? What value are we going to bring to them? Like, there is a lot of planning behind this, but as far as hard hard dollars going out the door, there's not a lot. It's a lot of thought, it's a lot of strategy. It takes a lot of software these days, it makes it a lot easier.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

But I I just want to make sure that we are being clear as to yes, this is kind of a low budget technique, but you do have to really be defined on what your brand, like what is your customer experience you want your customers to have, right? So you know how you're designing the platform in which you're pushing this out on.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Right. Well, well, you know, if a podcast is too much work, which is fine, I understand it, it is a lot of work. Um, or if you want to be able to do something that's not gonna take up so much of your time, like you could always uh do your status updates in the color theme of your brand. Um to be honest, if you're using Canva, Canva will go ahead and create. You tell it what your what your all of the things that you want, and anything that you create is gonna because that's what I do with my company too. I have my brand colors and I have a welcome packet, I have proposals, and whatever it is that I send out to a client that's in a like a PDF form. Sure. Always has the same colors, always has the same look to it. Everything is is solid, you know, so people know what kind of experience they're going to have if they come, uh if they become a client of mine. Granted, I'm a service company, but I do feel that you could do that with any product as well. Um there's also, funny enough, another person that I follow. I don't even drink beer. But I love this in this uh this brewery that's local to where I live. But I'm not a beer drinker, but I love the way that they've marketed themselves. They're um one of the words in this brewery is squirrel. And so they use a squirrel in a lot of really funny ways. They have the funniest Instagram posts. But like you know already that if you go there, you're gonna have a great time. It's gonna be laid back, it's gonna be casual, it's gonna be funny. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Yeah. Well, I mean, that actually brings a good point to the next kind of idea, practical application of what we're talking about today is creating that emotional connection with your customer. Now, this is something like you said, you can create on a really small budget because social media these days don't really cost any money. It just requires your time and effort and thoughtfulness around it. But that's what you mean is like you've already been emotionally attached to the brand. From that, from what you see, you can you can pretty much know what the implied customer experience is. And when you have a brick and mortar, you know, this even goes as far as just kind of how your layout is, what your vibe and ambiance is. Yeah, exactly. And then um, same thing for like if you are a service-based business, yes, you don't have a brick and mortar, but you can always do things like have special like customer appreciation nights out or some kind of group event that you've seen other companies do this, where you all go to like a baseball game or you go to some kind of outing. Now, granted, you probably need a little bit more money for you to do this. So, this is probably for the business that's been established for a little bit of time. But if you don't have that kind of budget, you know, you can always create that customer experience, that emotional connection through platforms like social media that has almost effectively zero cost, hard cost to you. Right. Now, the other thing is if you happen to be a business that has you have employees, right? Your employee experience pretty much will also be defined by, I mean, your customer experience will be somewhat defined by your employee experience, especially if they're customer facing, right? So, you know, Southwest is a great example of this. Now, I haven't ridden Southwest in the last few years, and certainly not after COVID, so but I assume their brand is still kind of the same. But there was a period of time where I was flying back and forth with Southwest every almost every other weekend for a period of time, like half a year. And so I got to know how they work pretty well. And oh my gosh, there's some cheap, like cheery people that work for Southwest, right? I mean, even one time I remember a crew, one of the guys belted out in song, which I mean, mind you, it was really early in the morning, so I was a little annoyed that I was waking up to something like that. But I have to give them a thumbs up that you know they were doing it out of their own fruition. It wasn't that there was some kind of uh playbook that they were following, but they feel compass like strong enough about their jobs that they wanted to cheer up the customers, and that's how they did it. So I would, you know, and just always always, you know, again, like those kind of things still stick with me today. So I always have a fond memory of Southwest, and I expect very friendly services when I when I when I go on their um go on their trips. Same thing could probably be said for Chick-fil-A, your experience with McDonald's, Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

unknown 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

I mean most well-mannered young people.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

You know exactly what you're gonna get when you go when you go there. If you want to be treated well, or you know, you know exactly what you're gonna get before you go there. Right. And um I've I know I've brought this show up before because um The Bear on Hulu, I think, is definitely like the greatest show about owning a business. I I mean, I don't know, maybe I read too much into it, but I watched an episode yesterday where it's it was a flashback to what the bear was like when um the main character's brother owned it. And there was a lot of yelling, there was a lot of cursing, and there was a lot of like there was also camaraderie. All of their clientele were uh of a certain ilk, and the um the the people that worked there spoke in that same kind of language that attracted that kind of person, and they only sold um sandwiches. That's all they sold. And now that the main character has completely revamped it, all of the servers, it's much more buttoned up, it's much more professional, no one yells. Well, they they do yell, but they yell in the kitchen. But like, you know, it's a thousand percent different from when his brother owned it. Right. And so when you went into um, I don't even remember what the name of it was. It was the beef steak, the bear, the beef steak, or something like that. Anyway, when he owned it, you knew that if you went in there, you were gonna get a certain kind of blue-collar collin tail. But if you go into the bear, you're gonna you better be well dressed and wear your um you know, wear your best and and don't say any curse words.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Right. So the customer experience actually defines what kind of customers you are going to attract. Certain people are gonna be attracted to that experience. And that's also what's so great about small business, because everybody has a different experience. So you just you know you go with the crowds you feel comfortable with.

unknown 42:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

All that is to say that you know, having a positive work environment tends to lead to more positive customer experience. And it doesn't, again, doesn't cost hundred dollars in the beginning for you to create that culture. But if you have a little bit of money because you've been stabilized for a while, certainly you can invest in training and development programs to help enhance your employees' skill set and their experience with your company, which in turn flows down to your customer's experience with them. And it's a last but not least, we can't go anywhere without talking about reviews these days. So one of the ways to actually craft your customer experience, especially with negative feedback, is to leverage that into something that is more innovative or for positive change. So when customers complain, whether it's out loud on a Google review or to you in person or whatever the case may be, you can turn that around and respond to show that you actually value their feedback. And if you have, you know, a little bit more budget than others, meaning that you know you can do more than just replying to those reviews, which I would always recommend if you have a negative review to reply professionally and positively. But if you have a little bit more, you know, in your budget, you can always implement uh systems to have formal feedback loops. So you constantly get feedback from your customers or ex-customers if you happen to make them really mad and they go away somewhere. But you can use that to actually make things even better, right? So a quick example of that is like Netflix. We all remember Netflix. They were a live stream, they started their streaming channel, it sucked, everybody hated it, people complained about it because they were like, Oh, there's not enough selection here and not enough choices. And so instead of saying, well, You guys don't know what you're talking about. We're Netflix. We know where we want to go. They were like, okay, we're going to take this. And they kind of fuel that into the innovation today, which now you cannot say they don't have enough choices. They've invested a lot of money in original content, which is one of, honestly, I think one of the reasons why Netflix stands out so much against all the other streaming channels because their original content is very good.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

Yes, I agree. It's also more expensive than it used to be, but in my mind, I'm okay with spending twice as much as I did than when I first got it, because I feel like my experience is twice as much better.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Twice as much better? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

Yeah. I mean, I'm fortunate enough that I have uh a few streaming channels to compare against, and I would say that I mean there is something about Netflix content that is just different than HBO or Paramount or Disney, right? They're just it's a different feel to it and it does stand out. So they did a great job investing in that. Now they have a big budget, but um, you know, it's something that we can kind we can use to inspire ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

But we see it in the content that they create. They are getting better, um, they're bringing better shows, bringing better, better movies, they're doing, you know, so and the same can be said for your own. Now to bring it into like an everyday application, I would say uh personally, I really like the way MailChimp has these um funnels, so uh templates, templates for funnels, like sales funnels. And so if let's say, for example, you lost a bunch of clients, um, and you're like, hang on a second, these people were clients of mine for a long time and now they're gone. Or these people used to come into my shop and I know they haven't moved. Why are they not coming to my shop anymore? Uh, you could utilize one of their templates and either send it out as an email or as an SMS and say, Hey, we miss you. Where have you been? What happened to your experience? You could either add a um uh what do you call it?

SPEAKER_03 45:55

So you're like soliciting feedback.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

You could yeah, you could solicit feedback from them, or you can be like, hey, we don't know why you decided to ghost us, but here's I don't know, a percent X percent card on us.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

We would love to have you back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's also some a good place to invest your money into if you have a little bit more on a budget. And those kind of software platforms like MailChimp and others that's similar to that also have usually like an entry-level subscription that allows you maybe not a huge volume, but again, if you're a small business with a small budget, like you don't need a huge volume, you just need the actual functionality of it. So something that's linked to look forward to, solicit that feedback, be able to capitalize on that, um, you know, and again, elevate your customer experience.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Right. Yeah. We have had quite the show so far, haven't we? I feel like there's I feel like there's still so much to be said. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

And if you know, if you feel like we should say more, definitely give us a thumbs up and we'll say more next time.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Definitely. Um, well, uh, speaking of sayings, uh, there is a saying that goes, put your money where your mouth is. And we're gonna drill down a bit further here to connect what we've discussed at a granular level to tangible sources you can take for that next level.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

So I just have a couple of books and also a couple other podcasts to recommend. I mean, there are podcasts that are dedicated to really toning in on the customer experience. So we don't always need to hoard all your attention. Um love it that you know you take something good away. Yes. So, I mean, as far as books, there is uh Chip Heath and Dan Heath, which are uh somewhat well-known authors, and they wrote this book called The Power of Moments. And so this is basically what we were talking about, kind of that invisible touch point and those little moments you can create that has profound impact on your customers. And their book actually goes through how, as a business, you can create these memorable customer experiences that really stand out for yourself. Uh, the other one I thought I loved the uh title of is uh Hug Your Haters by J Bear. So this basically explores how business can use customer complaints as opportunities to actually strengthen your customer relationship and that should improve the overall customer experience. So I love turning that negative into a positive. Okay. And two quick podcasts. One is uh it's called the customer experience podcast. So I'll give you three guesses what that podcast is about, right? So it's all about customer experience and they, you know, interview like experts and give practical advice on how to improve your customer interactions. And then the other one is called the uh experience this podcast. So this is a bit more fun. It shares a lot of like real life stories and like customer experiences, and of course, just like us, actionable takeaways that you can, you know, take and put, you know, put to use in your business and get a little bit closer to that growth or the success you're looking for. So I love it.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Cool. All right. Well, I have a little bit of uh this, that, and the other as well to offer up. And I'm gonna start with a movie called Caffeinated. This is a movie that came out in 2015 and it tells a story of coffee through the perspectives of people who have dedicated their lives to it. Um, and it includes Alfred Pete. So uh the movie goes on to show you at every step of the process the hands that plant the seed, that uh roast the beans, the crafted drink, and that makes every cup of coffee a story worth telling. Really cool. Uh, we're also going to put in the show notes our uh links of which we used in order to provide this content to you. Uh also there are three that I am including that go a little bit further into what we're talking about about how to measure and how to strategize the customer experience. Uh, one is from Zendesk, and there are two from HBR. Uh next, there is also a YouTube video called Best Practices for Developing a Customer Experience Strategy by People Metrics Live. I'm including this because there's a worksheet provided in their show notes that I think is really valuable. So the video I want to say is like less than 40 minutes or just less than. But if you're more of a book person, consider reading measuring customer experience, how to develop and execute the most profitable customer experience strategies by Philip Klaus, or Customer Experience Excellence, The Six Pillars of Growth by Tim Knight and David Conway. Lastly, there these are my recommended strategies for defining and then creating a customer experience. So, one, there's the omnichannel experience. This is a marketing sales and customer service strategy that levels out kind of the playing field. So this could be web, mobile, social apps, uh, brick and mortar stores. The goal is to make sure that the customer can have the same experience regardless of the platform or the method that they use. So that's one. Uh, two is the customer journey map. And don't worry, you don't have to write all this down. Um, we'll we'll put this into our show notes as well. Um, anyways, so there's a customer journey map. This is a visual representation of what the customer's interaction looks like within your company. This includes their goals, their emotions, and their pain points. This can help marketers or your marketing team or yourself uh predict customer behavior and anticipate their needs, which will later lead to better customer response. So, um, one example I can give to that is in my industry, uh January is hair on fire and a dumpster going down a river. It is the worst month ever. Uh so I do my best to prepare for that time of year because January is when end of books need to be closed, everybody's 1099s, not everybody's got a fully covered W9. It's it's a mess. So, what we do is we start the customer's experience in September so that it's not a mess in January. Um, and then as Tiffany had mentioned, empowering your employees. This is a management approach. It gives your employees more autonomy and control over their own work. Uh, it can help employees feel more engaged and creative, it can help them make more independent decisions, and when an employee feels more powered, they may be more productive and innovative, which can then improve business outcomes. Lastly, there's understanding your audience. Who are your customers? How can you reach them? What products or service do they need? How would they benefit from your offerings? How much would they be willing to pay? And who are your competitors? So if you could write this stuff down, put it into a spreadsheet, whatever it is, this could be the starting point of you creating the strategy towards your customer experience. Actually, that wasn't last. This is last. Uh, there's obviously there's connect, connect with your customers, but if you connect with your customers, streamlining your processes, and then track your what your consumer sentiment is around your brand. Because maybe you created a brand that not everybody is going to love. You need to know. I mean, you don't want to be new Coke, right? You don't want to present new Coke and then everyone be like, this is trash. So pay very close attention to what their experience is and talk to them. Just talk to them. So, what more can we say about this? Anything else? I think I feel like we have really covered a lot. I think we did. All right, awesome. So please hit those like buttons and the follow buttons and tell all of your friends about us. Everybody, tell your neighbors, tell your friends. Our show is on all of your preferred podcast platforms, social media and YouTube. Um, we'd love for you to also share our episodes. All of our links are posted below. And until next time, mind the business behind your business because all great successes smart start small.